raymond frantz

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Posts by raymond frantz

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  21

  PREPARE TO GET PELTED BY SYMBOLIC HAILSTONES

  by raymond frantz in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  https://youtu.be/idhmflud3p4?si=9xc4svrhxslduwvz.

  so david schafer a member of the teaching commitee and a helper to the governing body has come out yesterday with a new video that goes through the king of the north, the hailstones message and other things in the wake of the possibility of a ww3 and especially now that tensions are escalating with russia so he is making quite a few end time arguments and i will be expanding on those one by one but today let's see what he has about the hailstones message of the end(video) so this is the paragraph in question, paragraph 14 from article 20 of the watchtower 2020 study edition: "sometime after the start of the great tribulation, “the kings of the entire inhabited earth” will form a coalition of nations.

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  raymond frantz

  @A watcher

  The hailstones of Revelation are a physical plague there is no such thing as hailstone message as I explain on this video
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  21

  PREPARE TO GET PELTED BY SYMBOLIC HAILSTONES

  by raymond frantz in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  https://youtu.be/idhmflud3p4?si=9xc4svrhxslduwvz.

  so david schafer a member of the teaching commitee and a helper to the governing body has come out yesterday with a new video that goes through the king of the north, the hailstones message and other things in the wake of the possibility of a ww3 and especially now that tensions are escalating with russia so he is making quite a few end time arguments and i will be expanding on those one by one but today let's see what he has about the hailstones message of the end(video) so this is the paragraph in question, paragraph 14 from article 20 of the watchtower 2020 study edition: "sometime after the start of the great tribulation, “the kings of the entire inhabited earth” will form a coalition of nations.

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  raymond frantz

  There's been 2 released videos yesterday one by Lett on war and one on end time prophetic events, me thinks that they see the clouds of WW3 gathering and try to get their theological ducks in a row, if that's even possible
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  21

  PREPARE TO GET PELTED BY SYMBOLIC HAILSTONES

  by raymond frantz in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  https://youtu.be/idhmflud3p4?si=9xc4svrhxslduwvz.

  so david schafer a member of the teaching commitee and a helper to the governing body has come out yesterday with a new video that goes through the king of the north, the hailstones message and other things in the wake of the possibility of a ww3 and especially now that tensions are escalating with russia so he is making quite a few end time arguments and i will be expanding on those one by one but today let's see what he has about the hailstones message of the end(video) so this is the paragraph in question, paragraph 14 from article 20 of the watchtower 2020 study edition: "sometime after the start of the great tribulation, “the kings of the entire inhabited earth” will form a coalition of nations.

  (rev.

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  raymond frantz

  @ StephaneLaliberte

  Brilliant! Never thought of that, have to try that next time😄
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  21

  PREPARE TO GET PELTED BY SYMBOLIC HAILSTONES

  by raymond frantz in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  https://youtu.be/idhmflud3p4?si=9xc4svrhxslduwvz.

  so david schafer a member of the teaching commitee and a helper to the governing body has come out yesterday with a new video that goes through the king of the north, the hailstones message and other things in the wake of the possibility of a ww3 and especially now that tensions are escalating with russia so he is making quite a few end time arguments and i will be expanding on those one by one but today let's see what he has about the hailstones message of the end(video) so this is the paragraph in question, paragraph 14 from article 20 of the watchtower 2020 study edition: "sometime after the start of the great tribulation, “the kings of the entire inhabited earth” will form a coalition of nations.

  (rev.

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  raymond frantz

  https://youtu.be/Idhmflud3P4?si=9xc4svrHXslDUwvz

  So David Schafer a member of the Teaching Commitee and a helper to the Governing body has come out yesterday with a new video that goes through the king of the North, the hailstones message and other things in the wake of the possibility of a WW3 and especially now that tensions are escalating with Russia so he is making quite a few End Time arguments and I will be expanding on those one by one but today let's see what he has about the hailstones message of the End(video)
  So this is the paragraph in question, paragraph 14 from Article 20 of the Watchtower 2020 Study Edition:
  "Sometime after the start of the great tribulation, “the kings of the entire inhabited earth” will form a coalition of nations. (Rev. 16:13, 14; 19:19) That coalition becomes what the Scriptures call “Gog of the land of Magog.” (Ezek. 38:2) That coalition of nations will make one final all-out assault on God’s people. What will provoke the attack? Speaking of this time, the apostle John saw a storm of unusually large hailstones raining down on God’s enemies. That symbolic hailstorm may take the form of a hard-hitting judgment message delivered by Jehovah’s people. It could be that this message provokes Gog of Magog into attacking God’s people with the intention of wiping them off the earth.​—Rev. 16:21."
  The vision of Revelation 16:21 is nothing short of apocalyptic: “And great hailstones, each about the weight of a talent, came down from heaven on the people, and they blasphemed God for the plague of the hail, because the plague was unusually great.” While this vivid description clearly depicts a dramatic, literal event, some have insisted these hailstones are nothing more than a symbolic “hard-hitting judgment message” delivered by Jehovah’s Witnesses. Let’s pause here—are we really talking about the same Jehovah’s Witnesses who quietly stand next to literature carts while scrolling on their phones or sipping cappuccinos? Yes, apparently, these same individuals are destined to unleash a message so powerful it’ll provoke a coalition of nations into outright war. Forgive me if I remain skeptical.
  First, let’s address the context of Revelation 16. This chapter is packed with literal, physical disasters. We read of painful sores, water turning to blood, and scorching heat from the sun. For example, Revelation 16:3 states: “The second one poured out his bowl into the sea, and it became blood like that of a dead man, and every living creature in the sea died.” Later, Revelation 16:8-9 describes: “The fourth one poured out his bowl on the sun, and it was permitted to scorch people with fire. And the people were scorched with great heat, but they blasphemed the name of God, who has authority over these plagues.” Clearly, these are not abstract metaphors but very real, terrifying phenomena. Why, then, would the seventh plague suddenly veer off into the realm of metaphorical messaging? Did John just decide, mid-vision, to switch to poetry?
  And let’s not forget the detail about the weight of the hailstones. Revelation 16:21 specifies that each hailstone weighs “about a talent,” which is roughly 75 to 100 pounds. I don’t know about you, but I’ve never heard of a metaphor that comes with a precise weight measurement. Are we supposed to believe these 100-pound “symbolic” hailstones represent a spiritual truth? If so, what exactly is the takeaway here? “Prepare for heavy judgment, spiritually speaking, of course”? No, the mention of their weight is deliberate, emphasizing the sheer physicality and devastating impact of this plague. These are literal hailstones, not some nebulous idea scribbled in a Watchtower article.
  Biblical precedent only reinforces this point. God has used literal hailstones in the past to punish the wicked. In Exodus 9:22-25, during the seventh plague on Egypt, Jehovah tells Moses: “‘Stretch out your hand toward the heavens so that hail may fall on all the land of Egypt, on people and animals and all the plants of the field in the land of Egypt.’ So Moses stretched out his rod toward the heavens, and Jehovah sent thunder and hail, and fire flared down to the earth, and Jehovah kept making it rain down hail on the land of Egypt. Thus there was hail, and fire flashing in among the hail. It was so severe that there had never been anything like it in all the land of Egypt since it had become a nation.” The devastation was real, not symbolic. Similarly, in Joshua 10:11, we read: “While they were fleeing from Israel and were on the descent of Beth-horon, Jehovah hurled great hailstones from the heavens on them as far as Azekah, and they perished. In fact, more died from the hailstones than from the sword of the Israelites.” If you’re keeping track, that’s yet another case of real hailstones, not symbolic fire-and-brimstone sermons.
  But now we come to the real comedy: the idea that Jehovah’s Witnesses will deliver this so-called “hard-hitting” message. While Christians around the world endure actual persecution for their preachingJehovah’s Witnesses. I'm from Britain and the past few years I've seen attacks from mobs on street preachers or Christians been arrested outside abortion clinics for praying for the victims by actual police force while the Witnesses appear to be doing just fine. Their ministry largely involves standing silently next to literature carts, often glued to their phones or enjoying their local café’s finest cappuccinos. This isn’t exactly the stuff of bold, prophetic confrontation. How this passive approach could ever escalate into a message capable of provoking the wrath of global governments is beyond comprehension. Are they planning to swap their cappuccinos for megaphones? The sheer leap from cart-standing to world-shaking judgment proclamation is nothing short of laughable.
  And then there’s the historical context. This whole “symbolic hailstones” idea didn’t just pop out of nowhere; it has roots in the colorful imagination of Judge Rutherford, the second president of the Watch Tower Society. Rutherford had an uncanny ability to find himself in the Bible, no matter the passage. In his mind, every talk he gave was the fulfillment of some grand prophecy. Take the 1922 Cedar Point Convention, where Rutherford declared, “The kingdoms of this world have become the kingdom of our Lord.” He genuinely believed this event fulfilled Revelation 11:15. Spoiler alert: it didn’t. Yet, that didn’t stop him from making increasingly outlandish claims about his role in biblical prophecy. It’s no surprise, then, that Rutherford and early Watchtower publications entertained the idea of symbolic hailstones, framing their publications and talks as divine judgment. The sheer audacity of it all is almost impressive.
  In conclusion, the hailstones of Revelation 16:21 are literal, not symbolic. The context, the weight of the stones, and biblical precedent all point to a physical interpretation. Attempts to reimagine them as symbolic “messages” are not only unsupported by scripture but also comically inconsistent with the realities of Jehovah’s Witnesses’ ministry. Unless, of course, their cappuccino-fueled cart ministry undergoes a miraculous transformation. Until then, we’ll have to take Revelation at its word: the hailstones are 100 pounds of divine judgment, not a spiritual metaphor.
  
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  15

  Jehovah’s Witnesses’ UN Prophecy Fails Again: Trump’s Win Proves Them Wrong

  by raymond frantz in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  https://youtu.be/-kdbs3lcsx8?si=icfla8tzg0p_wdcz.

  the governing body of jehovah’s witnesses (gb) has done it again—another bold prophecy, another epic fail.

  during their 2024 annual meeting, they confidently announced that the nations of the world would soon hand over their power to the united nations.

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  raymond frantz

  @nowwhat?

  I know you did about this a month ago, I find your posts thought provoking and helped me write the article adding my take, I hope you don't mind
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  15

  Jehovah’s Witnesses’ UN Prophecy Fails Again: Trump’s Win Proves Them Wrong

  by raymond frantz in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  https://youtu.be/-kdbs3lcsx8?si=icfla8tzg0p_wdcz.

  the governing body of jehovah’s witnesses (gb) has done it again—another bold prophecy, another epic fail.

  during their 2024 annual meeting, they confidently announced that the nations of the world would soon hand over their power to the united nations.

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  raymond frantz

  https://youtu.be/-KdBS3LcSX8?si=ICFLA8tzG0P_wDCz

  The Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses (GB) has done it again—another bold prophecy, another epic fail. During their 2024 Annual Meeting, they confidently announced that the nations of the world would soon hand over their power to the United Nations. In their narrative, the UN is destined to rise as the ultimate global authority, fulfilling their interpretation of biblical prophecy. Sounds dramatic, right? The problem is, their prediction seems completely detached from the reality unfolding around us—especially after one critical event they didn’t see coming: Donald Trump’s victory in the 2024 U.S. presidential election.
  Let’s take a moment to unpack this. Trump, love him or hate him, is famous for his disdain for the United Nations. Throughout his first term, he made it crystal clear that he views the UN as a toothless bureaucracy that undermines national sovereignty. His “America First” policies prioritized pulling away from globalist agendas, cutting funding to international bodies, and renegotiating agreements to benefit the United States. It’s safe to say that Trump is the last person on Earth who would willingly hand over power to the UN. Yet, the Governing Body apparently based their prediction on the assumption that a Democrat—traditionally more supportive of international cooperation—would remain in office. Oops.
  With Trump’s win, the GB’s prophecy is already looking shakier than a toddler’s Jenga tower. There’s simply no plausible scenario where a Trump administration leads or supports a global power transfer to the UN. If anything, his presidency is likely to weaken the organization even further. Under Trump’s leadership, the U.S. is expected to double down on its sovereignty-first approach, encouraging other nationalist leaders to follow suit. This makes the notion of a UN takeover not just improbable but downright laughable.
  But that’s not all. The geopolitical scene in Europe is heating up, and not in a way that suggests a coordinated shift toward global unity. Tensions with Russia are escalating, and some speculate that globalist factions may be pushing for a major war as a way to regain control or disrupt nationalist movements. If true, this adds another layer of unpredictability to an already volatile situation. In such a climate, the idea of nations willingly surrendering their power to the UN feels like something out of a poorly written dystopian novel.
  And that’s where the Governing Body seems to misstep repeatedly. They look at the world as if it operates on a predictable script, one conveniently aligned with their interpretation of Bible prophecy. But the real world is messy, chaotic, and full of unexpected turns—like Trump winning an election most political commentators thought was a long shot. If the GB truly had divine insight, wouldn’t they have seen this coming? Wouldn’t their predictions align more closely with what’s actually happening?
  Of course, this isn’t the first time the Governing Body has missed the mark with their prophetic declarations. Their history is littered with failed predictions, from the infamous 1975 Armageddon fiasco to more recent claims about world events aligning with their timeline. Each time, they find a way to reframe their narrative or shift the goalposts, leaving their followers to rationalize the inconsistencies. It’s a pattern that raises serious questions about their claim to divine guidance. At what point does one stop being a prophet and start being just a bad guesser?
  The Governing Body’s latest prophecy seems to be more of the same. Rather than being based on any unique spiritual insight, it appears to be a mishmash of current events, wishful thinking, and their longstanding obsession with the United Nations. But as much as they might want the UN to fit the role of the “scarlet-colored wild beast” from Revelation, reality just isn’t cooperating. The UN is far from the global powerhouse they imagine—it’s more like a dysfunctional club where nations argue and little gets done. Suggesting it’s on the verge of ruling the world is as outlandish as predicting the local PTA will take over Congress.
  So, what’s the takeaway here? Once again, the Governing Body has shown that their prophetic crystal ball is more like a cloudy snow globe. They’re not reading the future; they’re just making guesses and hoping the pieces fall into place. And when they don’t, they’ll either quietly move the goalposts or come up with a convenient reinterpretation. Maybe it’s time for them to stop pretending they’ve got a direct line to God and start paying closer attention to what’s actually happening in the world. Or better yet, maybe it’s time they admit that prophecy isn’t their strong suit.
  For now, though, it seems we’re stuck with more of the same—bold predictions, epic fails, and a lot of explaining to do. If nothing else, their track record provides a valuable lesson: when someone claims to know the future, especially in as much detail as the Governing Body does, it’s worth taking a step back and asking if they’ve gotten it right before. Spoiler alert: they haven’t.
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  2

  Any Other Ex Jw in Greece?

  by Stelios99 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  are there any other ex jw in greece to exchange experiences and chat?

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  raymond frantz

  Yes I'm Greek, pm me
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  2908

  It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars (continued)

  by Simon in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  uh oh, looks like the mega thread gave up the ghost, so while i investigate / fix it just continue the discussion here .... it's been a long 9 years lloyd evans / john cedars.

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  raymond frantz

  I don't know what is more pathetic his constant begging for money or the gullible comments on this video ,people who immediately subscribed to his patreon, it never ends.
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  5

  Reply to Redhorsewoman on prayer.

  by spectromize in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  hi redhw,.

  i've been having a few problems with my computer so anyways i thought i'd reply to you in a new thread.. you said:" spectromize, i disagree with your assertion that because someone is not a jw, their prayers must therefore be answered by satan.".

  i never asserted or even said that.

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  raymond frantz

  AtLeastImNot, of course
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  5

  Reply to Redhorsewoman on prayer.

  by spectromize in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  hi redhw,.

  i've been having a few problems with my computer so anyways i thought i'd reply to you in a new thread.. you said:" spectromize, i disagree with your assertion that because someone is not a jw, their prayers must therefore be answered by satan.".

  i never asserted or even said that.

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  raymond frantz

  Is this the first ever post here? That was 25 years ago!!!